In this interview, UC Today’s Kristian McCann speaks with Stephen Baer, leadership advisor and author, about one of the most stubborn paradoxes in modern business. That is, organizations saying that people are their greatest asset, but then managing them on spreadsheets.
With Gallup reporting that 79% of employees worldwide are disengaged in 2025, Stephen makes a compelling argument. The way most companies measure engagement is actively undermining it. And the fix starts not with better tools, but with better leaders.
Topics include:
- The invisible drag is costing more than you think. Disengagement is estimated to cost the global economy $8.8 trillion annually — equivalent to 9% of global GDP. Meanwhile, companies that genuinely invest in their people see a third of average staff turnover and eight times more revenue per employee.
- Quiet quitting has a tell. When employees stop saying “what if we tried this?” and start saying “just tell me the deadline,” ownership, creativity, and innovation have already left the building. Compliance is what remains.
- Metrics should lag, not lead. The right question isn’t “what’s our engagement score?” — it’s “where are we losing people emotionally?” Tools and platforms work best as early warning systems for broken human experiences, not surveillance dashboards.
- Train coaches, not managers. Stephen’s framework — greet them, know them, grow them — gives middle managers a practical way to build the kind of relationships where people feel seen, understood, and clear on how their work connects to something bigger.
Next Steps
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